EVE Search - CCP allows some market bots?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

CCP allows some market bots?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.18 10:44:00 - [1] Originally by: Miss Rabblt i guess it would be good to get GM response here. This is really interesting question what is "bot" and what it "helping tool". Tools like this have been petitioned b4: reading from cache is not forbidden.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.18 15:30:00 - [2] Originally by: malaire Originally by: daddys helper so after reading this thread I now understand. OP is butthurt alt of a butthurt botter who got banned and is now grasping at straws to try and make some sort of halfassed argument about the rules of botting being unfair. the "all botting must be banned" part was the giveaway. Actually, I'm just a trader who doesn't like unfair competition. Get used to it, ppl with no life have more time to spend on EVE, that's unfair competition too
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 08:18:00 - [3] BTW, the API only allows for updating order/order status ONCE PER HOUR. Now what does that mean? That means you will have to manually go through the data you imported the rest of that hour. That only leaves one benefit: the fact that Mentat colors your own orders. A feature that should be included in the EVE client really and in no way a 'bot' feature.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 09:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: Dirk Decibel BTW, the API only allows for updating order/order status ONCE PER HOUR. Now what does that mean? That means you will have to manually go through the data you imported the rest of that hour. That only leaves one benefit: the fact that Mentat colors your own orders. A feature that should be included in the EVE client really and in no way a 'bot' feature. I spent 10 second thinking over and solving this problem, finding a way that Mentat could easily spot your updated order with _very_ high probability. Unless it reads from the EVE client automated and directly, that still doesn't make it a bot
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 09:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Thart Originally by: Dirk Decibel BTW, the API only allows for updating order/order status ONCE PER HOUR. Now what does that mean? That means you will have to manually go through the data you imported the rest of that hour. That only leaves one benefit: the fact that Mentat colors your own orders. A feature that should be included in the EVE client really and in no way a 'bot' feature. There is possibility to track your orders with any time interval using file import (for orders) instead of API. But this requires manual actions inside EVE Online client. I know, manual being the key word here.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 11:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Sjugar Ofcourse a valid method has its invalid uses. A useraction, after which this method is called and the market item is displayed. Perfectly fine. A script, repeating itself calling this method in succession without any userintervention: not so fine. Well, obviously it was created by CCP to accomodate traders, a good thing I would say, since the EVE client itself is utter crap when it comes to trading. BTW: I use several macro keys on my keyboard for various stuff in EVE, so I can get done in one keystroke what otherwise would take me several keystrokes. So you can say I 'automated' part of my input! Is that botting too, should CCP ban all input devices that have programmable buttons?
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 11:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Sjugar With this functionality it's possible to make a "market allerter" where you get an automated message on your cellphone just seconds after someone undercuts you. Good luck with that if you're involved in heavy 0.01 isking in jita, even with around 20 items, by the time the script has gathered all the info and you imported it into Mentat, chances are the info will not be acurate anymore. And as stated b4: EVEmon can warn you about free room in your skill queue. If automated messages to your cellphone is considered botting in your world, that program should disappear too.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 12:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Sjugar Originally by: Dirk Decibel Originally by: Sjugar And as stated b4: EVEmon can warn you about free room in your skill queue. If automated messages to your cellphone is considered botting in your world, that program should disappear too. Evemon uses the api. The Api is the tool for automated interaction with the game. The IGB is not the designated tool for automated interaction with the game. Apparently it is, why would CCP have implemented this feature into their software if we weren't allowed to use it? Quote: I never claimed automated interaction with the game is forbidden. That's why we have the api. Automated interaction with the Eve client however........ And yes, the use of macros is also forbidden. Me binding CTRL-space into a single key is forbidden you say?
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 13:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Marchocias Edited by: Marchocias on 19/08/2011 12:19:45 Originally by: Dirk Decibel Me binding CTRL-space into a single key is forbidden you say? Totally forbidden mate! I, for one, can't understand why you'd use such a massive cheat to gain advantage over the rest of us. I will be reporting you at once! That's not all! I even have keys binded to let my drones engage and return! And if you think that's bad: I've also added a key that does [select all - copy - paste - return/enter] for making updating large ammounts of sell orders of the same type easier and faster! Surely THAT must be botting
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 14:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Sjugar Seeing you can't win the original discussion you're trying to shift it to a subject you CAN win by making some absurd statements about keybinding drones. Wait a minute: First, YOU claim macro-keys are forbidden. Then when I give an example of one of my macro-bindings, suddenly I'm being absurd? If you are against any automation, you should indeed consider these short cuts I take illegal, since they do automate my interacting with the client to a certain point. So what's it gonna be? Should they ban key-bindings or not?
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 14:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Sjugar This isn't about keybinding it's about botting/automation. And my keybinding is a form of automation. Specially the select all-paste-enter combo and stuff like it. Now done with one keystroke that sets in motion a chain of events that I would otherwise have to do MANUALLY, therefore taking more time and requiring more attention and focus. Surely, if you're such an anti-automation freak, that must strike you as an unfair advantage? But for some reason you call that 'absurd', yet having a java method that was implemented by CCP itself loop is 'botting'. Let's take it one step further: I could argue that grouping weapons is unfair, it gives everyone the ability to fire all their weapons at once, it automates the process of having to push more buttons. Before this was around, ppl that could push their 6/7/8/whatever funtion keys faster than others had a small advantage. And as any EVE player knows: no advantage is too small not to matter in this game. Yet, nobody will argue for the removal of this feature. Why? Cause it makes the game more fun by taking out a non-fun part (the smashing of your keyboard to get your guns firing asap) so you can get to the actual gameplay faster and without hasstle (the gameplay being the fight). The same is true for the possibility to loop the javacode. It takes out a tedious part of gathering data (you would have to click each of your items manually in your shortlist to display market orders and let it be written to cache, and while you could prolly do it faster than the Javascript can, nobody wants to do that 10 times a day) and let's you get to the actual gameplay of trading: deciding how you are going to act on this information. It does NOT set up orders for you, nor does it update them, it does not make decissions for you, it just gathers data that is available to you anyway but without turning it into a clickfest (a clickfest is NOT gameplay for the trading part of the game). So if you want to be 'pure' on the 'no automation'-stand: go argue against keybindings and weapons grouping. Or, stop being a hypocrite.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 14:59:00 - [12] Originally by: malaire You can create bot which automatically, without user being present, continually updates the cache files. And that would help you how exactly? If you're not present, you can't act on the information... But it would remove the need to click the 'start scan' button 10 times a day, hm, I 'll have to ask Thart to implement this in one of his next releases.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 15:47:00 - [13] Originally by: malaire Originally by: Dirk Decibel Originally by: malaire External program could be reading those cache files continually, and when it detects that my order isn't best anymore, it can then send email/SMS notification to my cellphone, so I can come to computer for a moment to update my order, and then continue whatever I was doing away from computer. And we've already established that programs giving you information on what's going on in EVE online aren't illegal, otherwise EVEmon would have been banned ages ago... That does the same thing: warn you when you are away from pc. Yet I don't see you argueing against ft....
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 15:55:00 - [14] Originally by: malaire Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Mentat still reads the CACHE FILES, which is supposedly NOT ALLOWED. Actually, that is allowed. See http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1190021 Creator of that specifically got permission from CCP to publish it. Linkage Tool that did basicly the same as what you are complaining about, guy petitioned it and GM gave the green light. Quote: Is this legal? Yes it is. I have petitionned this tool, and a game master told me it was fine. I am not allowed to post screenshots of my petition here, however I can PM you links in game if you want.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 16:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Marchocias I guess everythings pretty much been said. All we can do is wait for a CCP ruling. Since they already aproved of EVE001tool (now no longer developed) I doubt they will rule against EVEmentat.
Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.19 17:08:00 - [16] Originally by: malaire Originally by: Dirk Decibel Originally by: Marchocias I guess everythings pretty much been said. All we can do is wait for a CCP ruling. Since they already aproved of EVE001tool (now no longer developed) I doubt they will rule against EVEmentat. I'm not interested about EVEmentat specifically (it doesn't even do what I've suggested could be possible), but general answer whether this kind of IGB javascript + cache reading external application combination can be used for its full potential or not. It's pretty simple imo: anything you can get out of the IGB, you can do anything to. So yes, your messaging software should be allowed. And no, I'm not trying to get you banned.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.